Horne - 18 assists, 35 tackle busts, 11 clean breaks

Miller - 9 assists, 25 tackle busts, 4 clean breaks

Holdsworth - 17 assists, 4 tackle busts, 2 clean breaks



this for me highlights the problem with Holdsworth - he is a catch and pass player, he doesnt engage the line enough and give the defence any doubt as to what he is going to do - Horne and miller play at the line either putting people through or going themselves with conviction as it shows with the busts and breaks

I still disagree with the Sinfield comparison, not just on playing ability. Even when it's going against Leeds you can still see Sinfield actively trying to take control, and that's precisely what we're not getting from Holdsworth and my major question about what he offers. When we're having a bad time, the player's who seem to want the ball more are Heremaia, Miller, Horne, Whiting, and Westerman. Personally I just think that Holdsworth should be amongst that group but isn't.

We seemed to do a lot of tackling and I feel that is what has being the downfall of our attack. Slow PTB and a lightweight pack have also contributed to a lack of dummy runners due to the large work ethic in defence IMO.



Hopefully with a bit more punch coming in and a new conditioner it may be something Radders and the coaching staff can achieve.



I feel if we see that improve we will see more of Miller and Holdsworth.

Them stats tell you all you need to know really.



We should be looking at a Miller/Horne partnership next year.

Ok, let me try again. I don't think Holdsworth is like Sinfield, I just think he's more like him than he is Burrow. That's as far as the 'comparison' goes. Sinfield's strength is in his organisation, his passing and his kicking game. In Holdsworth's better games, he has also done well in these areas. He's even turned in a couple of MOM performances undertaking this role.







Perhaps that's true, but it's easy to see why he wouldn't want to continually receive slow ball in poor positions to then be clobbered by the opposition and castigated by fans. I agree that he needs to improve the consistency of his performances, but I think that'll happen a lot easier once he has a decent platform to work with.

OK, my turn to try again. I don't think it's a good comparison. 1. Because I don't think Holdsworth does organise us enough, hence why we've been disorganised almost all year. 2. Because I don't think his passing is anything special, nothing more than adequate for a halfback (some of his passing from dummy-half this year has made Houghton look world class).



Where we simply disagree on a fundamental level is when you say that Burrow is more eye-catching than Sinfield. If you know what you're looking at, no he isn't, and particularly when his team and pack are up against it because he then has less opportunity to shine whilst Sinfield is still clearly their main man trying to make things happen. That's my entire point about what I think Holdsworth isn't offering us, quality, leadership and guidance/composure when we most need it.



So basically, comparing him to Sinfield highlights my problem with rather than makes an allowance for him, as just because he doesn't run with the ball doesn't mean we should barely notice he's playing when we're not on top. That's certainly not typically the case with Sinfield, Brough, Briers, Dureau, or several others who play that sort of a role for their teams.

You're joking, right? Brough and Briers are two of the worst culprits for being anonymous when they're on the back foot.



And didn't he only have one assist fewer than Horne this year?

They're less effective, yes, but I don't agree they get less involved or stop trying things. Look at Brough against Wigan, he was awful and kept making errors, but he was still trying to take control. That's what Holdsworth lacks IMO, and is the quality of which we are most in need.



And yes he did, but to be fair Horne also played less games in the halves.

I've seen both have games in the past where they go missing if things aren't going their way. Briers particularly.







The quality of trying stuff that's ineffective because we're being beaten in other areas? I don't think you can blame a half back for taking the wrong option if the only options he has are to pass it to a stationary player outside of him, or drop it off to Tickle on the inside. When the forwards are on top, Holsworth usually plays well or very well. When the forwards are being dominated (as ours often are) he's less effective. But then, so is Miller, he just looks busier whilst he's doing it.







Even so, everyone has raved about Horne's performances whilst Holdsworth has been widely panned. I fully accept that Horne has been better, but I don't think the difference is as vast as some are making out. I firmly believe that if we can sort out our ptb speed and Houghton can improve his distribution (big ifs, I know), Holdsworth will have a good season next year.

Of course it's happened sometimes, it will for all players. I said that it [itypically[/i isn't the case. Holdsworth did it for about the last month and a half of our season.







But he rarely only has just those 2 options. We're bad, but not quite that bad. He could throw a cut out pass to the winger, try taking the line on or drawing the defender before passing, or kick with a bit of purpose rather than a lot of hope. But he doesn't.







I've not panned Holdsworth. I've said that I think he should be better, but not that he's been poor (I don't think. If so, I retract going that far), and that in a direct comparison to Miller he doesn't seem to want to take charge as much, when as the supposed senior half I think he should. I haven't raved about Horne, either, just pointed out that he's been better as you've just agreed.

It's one of the most pathetic things I see on here when someone says a player/coach isn't good enough and is then someone else comes on and challenges them to name better. It's not my job to name anyone better. I don't have the contacts in the game, know enough about our playing budget, which players are or may be available, what transfer fee may be allotted and a host of other things. It's the management at the club's job to do these things, not mine

Have to agree.