if westerman had gone to saints,or wigan,or wire(as rumoured by their fans)people would have moaned about how unambitious we are!

Would be interesting to know what the tipping point would be. Whilst, like most, I'd hope and expect this season so to be Top 4 or you're out, I can't help thinking that another almost top 4 and play-off defeat would be enough for him to keep his job.



The issue for us as supporters is this, though. We generally believe Agar's not got the credentials a club of our size deserves. We generally would settle for a poor season if we thought this would be a call to arms to the board to go out and a get a top class coach. The reality is that there is no evidence whatsoever that getting rid of Agar would result in a top class coach coming in. Many of us have challenged Rule on the increasing importance of a top class coach as a key differentiator in the salary cap era and he's disagreed with us. It's baffling, I know, as the investment would pay back pretty quickly if we got some success, but I just can't see it happening. The successor to Richard Agar will more than likely be our #1 target when Peter Sharp was appointed, i.e. Steve McNamara.

Even if you accept that to be true (which it certainly isn't in the case of Maguire), I don't really understand what point you're trying to make? If we sacked Rich Agar (

) and undertook a mission similar to Wigan to identify and recruit the best available candidate for the job, are you saying the fans wouldn't find that preferable to keeping Agar on the basis that his replacement wasn't a household name?



The only argument you seem to be making is 'better the devil you know'?

Agree with nearly everything you say for once, Rule has said the same thing to me and it makes me question what he's doing running a sports club if he thinks the head coach isn't important.



Surely the board wouldn't be stupid enough to appoint McNamara though? Other than him being a local lad or in the unlikely event he wins something with England I just can't see how they could possibly frame it. At least when they appointed Agar he wasn't already a proven failure.

From my point of view, I just want my confidence/belief back that the team can turn up and win in big games.



I don't actually care if the club finish 8th...so long as they are in great form come playoff time and are capable of beating anyone. Instead we have become a club that grinds out drab results,and finishes mid-table yet can't perform in the big games.



In 2005 for example we played very poorly some weeks and were a very erratic side. But we famously played Saints off the park in the CC, beat Leeds and won the cup, beat Andrew John's Warrington etc those are the kind games you will remember for the rest of your life...not a drab low scoring league game against Quins.

The point is no one knows who the right man is, where one aussie suceeds another one fails, Brown and Maguire were not big names with big reps but they have done really well. It's always a bit of a gamble, either way until Agar goes it's not relevant.

Spot on, Agar will have had his say but it has to be backed by the BOD and regardless of who the head coach is Westerman is still an asset to the club and will benefit from a year under Fitz.

Spot on, I know it gets stated a lot but we really are such a dull team to watch, any result (except the two Saints games last season) is ground out, in a way it's a testament to Agar that at home we were quite strong and constistantly beat the teams we should have, that's why we held a decent league position even though we were terrible to watch and were one of the lowest points scoters in the competition, you can't argue that really Agar did well with what he had last year,that said it won't get meto part with my season ticket money.

Might you also argue then that one of the board's motivations for going for Westerman was to try and ensure that Agar plays a more attractive style of rugby this season? This is a really important year for Westerman after he appeared to stagnate a bit at Cas, I can't see the board being happy if Agar risks the development of the club's expensive new 'asset' by playing him out of position for most of the season.

We don't even know where he will play yet so that is all fairly pointless tbh. I think he will play backrow, looseman and possibly at 6 depending on the injury situation.



I think the club and Agar would be happy to bring in a high quality young player and even if for a season we have to shuffle him about he will be ready to play 13 for 2012 and beyond when Fitz leaves.

It would be a pointless signing if RA doesn't play him 13. He's not a 6. If/When Long, Horne get injured i really hope he doesn't move JW to 6. Although knowing RA he'll make about 6 changes for 2 injuries.

The fact he was called a means we are bound to see him playing there when the injuries strike.