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| Quote carl_spackler="carl_spackler"Nowhere does that claim that the first point influenced the other. In fact in the original post in full, it clearly identifies a team meeting as the likely reason, not fan pressure.'" I think it implies it quite strongly, tbh.
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| Quote carl_spackler="carl_spackler"Nowhere does that claim that the first point influenced the other. In fact in the original post in full, it clearly identifies a team meeting as the likely reason, not fan pressure.
The original post was asking where the Radford critics are now that we've played well, in a goading manner possibly implying that those critics are/were wrong. It was the latest in a growing theme over the last 2 weeks seemingly wanting to have a go at the fans who are/were vocally unhappy with how we were playing. Robbo's post very sensibly pointed out the bizarre (non-)logic of questioning why those fans are no longer complaining now that things have changed and implying that change and improvement happening is somehow proof that they were wrong.
It's very simple, those unhappy with how we've been playing have had nothing to be unhappy about for the last 2 weeks. This doesn't mean they were wrong prior to that, it in fact (with notable exceptions) means that they are being entirely fair and rational in their assessments and not stubbornly ripping in when it is not justified. The fact that there isn't instant gushing praise is merely because 2 games is a very small sample size to be convinced that it is not just another false dawn.'"
I agree on this, as I said in one of my posts we have had very dire rugby in the last 18 months and if we are brutally honest we were seeming to be going backwards in terms of performance and results. That is why fans myself included have questioned the Coach and quite rightly. Now it is pleasing to see that we have played well in the last 2 games and credit to the team as whole for that but 2 games does not prove we have turned a corner or can sustain it as we have seen it so many times before since the 2006 GF appearance.
That for me is why fans are vocal about the coaching and rightly questioning the sudden change of the last 2 games from the way we have played over the past 18months. I for one am not knocking it as it is a breath of fresh air and great to see but doubts are still there as to whether it can be sustained for the remainder of the season.
The changes could well be in part be because the fans are disgruntled and not attending, something that Pearson alluded too in a recent interview and he also stated IIRC that after the Huddersfield game everyone at the club had to take a look at themselves. So maybe he gave them all an honest appraisal of their performances to date and maybe shaken them all out of the comfort zone and they needed to change things, which they have.
Things have changed and rapidly and whilst Radford no doubt will have had input in that, the amount and speed of the changes can not just be down to him suddenly becoming the grand master in terms of coaching.
Whatever are the reasons for change then I for one am happy to see them but will reserve judgement until more than just a couple of games as we have been here way too many times to then see all the promise turn to nothing and face yet another transistional season.
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| Quote *1865*="*1865*"I think it implies it quite strongly, tbh.'"
Then I think you should reread the quote in full:
Quote *1865*="Robbo4"We appear to have completely changed philosophy =#0000FFwhich is apparently on the back of a clear the air team meeting a few weeks ago. We are attacking with much more fluidity and offloads have suddenly returned. If this way of playing remains then Radford should be given some more time but the fact we have had to change how we play actually backs up what the Radford out Brigade have been saying.'"
Specifically attributing the change to a team meeting.
Quote *1865*="Robbo4"We play really boring uninspiring rugby so the fans get fed up and start to call for the coach to sort it out or go. =#0000FFThe coach eventually appears to change philosophy with the game plan and we start to play some attractive rugby and get some results =#0000FFand apparently this means the fans were wrong to ever question the coach in the first place. I'll leave you to decide just how dumb that is.'"
Note [ieventually[/i. There's been criticism and calls for his head for a fair while, I'm not sure how saying the coach [ieventually[/i changed his philosophy is suggesting it's a direct reaction to fan unrest. If it was fan-inspired it would have been before now, IMO. The point is clearly how strange it is to suggest that fans were wrong to not be happy on the evidence that they have been given what they want for a couple of games and as a result have (in the main) stopped complaining.
Claiming to be right about something is not the same as trying to claim the credit for fixing it.
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| Quote Chris71="Chris71"Things have changed and rapidly and whilst Radford no doubt will have had input in that the amount and speed of the changes can not just be down to him syddenly becoming the grand master in terms of coaching.'"
This is where this argument falls down. Radford is hammered on here, even to the point of personal abuse (from some) and hailed as one of the worst coaches in recent history, we start to win games and he's only 'had an input' and 'it can't be that he's suddenly become a good coach'.
My take on it is that we've had a (much needed) overhaul in our halfbacks and finally have two of fairly decent quality. However, they've taken time to develop an understanding. This progress was hampered by Sneyd's injury.
On the subject of Sneyd, I think he's an off the cuff player that the players are only just getting used to playing with.
Radford was also hammered for saying things would improve once Ellis was back, but he constantly attracts 3 or 4 defenders, this creates space elsewhere making it easy for the halves. So he wasn't wrong, was he?
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| Quote carl_spackler="carl_spackler"Then I think you should reread the quote in full:
Specifically attributing the change to a team meeting.
Note [ieventually[/i. There's been criticism and calls for his head for a fair while, I'm not sure how saying the coach [ieventually[/i changed his philosophy is suggesting it's a direct reaction to fan unrest. If it was fan-inspired it would have been before now, IMO. The point is clearly how strange it is to suggest that fans were wrong to not be happy on the evidence that they have been given what they want for a couple of games and as a result have (in the main) stopped complaining.
Claiming to be right about something is not the same as trying to claim the credit for fixing it.'"
Ok.
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| As we are in better form and playing some decent rugby how about we all stop tearing into the team, the coach and other fans?
At least until after Friday.
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| Quote *1865*="*1865*"This is where this argument falls down. Radford is hammered on here, even to the point of personal abuse (from some) and hailed as one of the worst coaches in recent history, we start to win games and he's only 'had an input' and 'it can't be that he's suddenly become a good coach'.
My take on it is that we've had a (much needed) overhaul in our halfbacks and finally have two of fairly decent quality. However, they've taken time to develop an understanding. This progress was hampered by Sneyd's injury.
On the subject of Sneyd, I think he's an off the cuff player that the players are only just getting used to playing with.
Radford was also hammered for saying things would improve once Ellis was back, but he constantly attracts 3 or 4 defenders, this creates space elsewhere making it easy for the halves. So he wasn't wrong, was he?'"
So are you saying it is all down to Radford alone?
What I am saying is fans have rightly questioned whether he was the right man for the job based on the evidence presented every match for the past 18 months. Then all of a sudden after the Huddersfield game which seemed to call about a team meeting & Pearson stating he'd made it clear performances were not acceptable etc and everyone at to look at themselves we seem to have had a huge change in terms of the way we playing in the last 2 games compared to everyone before.
That change and the speed can not just be done to one factor but a number of them. The fact we have seen more off loads/promoting the ball, dummy runners, angled runners and support play in the Cas game alone than we have all season points to more than just the coaching factor.
Whatever it is that has brought about the change then great and credit to everyone concerned but don't expect the disgruntled fans to suddenly become happy clappers overnight as we have had far too many false dawns.
Lets see in 5 more games whether we have been able to maintain a decent level of play and consistency
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| Quote Chris71="Chris71"So are you saying it is all down to Radford alone?'"
No, I'm asking for consistency of argument. People too quick to stick the knife in are always last to give credit.
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| Quote Diogenes="Diogenes"As we are in better form and playing some decent rugby how about we all stop tearing into the team, the coach and other fans?
At least until after Friday.'"
No No No. It's the highlight of my day logging on here and seeing the endless tide of claims, counter claims, accusations, arguments about semantics and general vitriolic abuse. It's like being part of the worlds biggest and most dysfunctional family. Makes me feel much more positive about my home life.
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| Quote *1865*="*1865*"Quote *1865*="Chris71"So are you saying it is all down to Radford alone?'"
No, I'm asking for consistency of argument. People too quick to stick the knife in are always last to give credit.'"
Unfortunately you will never get that as people in life generally are always quick to complain but slow to praise.
I don't think people have been quick to stick the knife in, many voiced concerns about Radfords level of experience as a major concern etc (myself included) and whether he was good enough when he was appointed. In all fairness what people have criticised him for in the main have been valid points and backed up their arguements with examples as is evident in the previous 18 months.
But like I said you can not expect people who have been very anti Radford to suddenly become happy clappers after 2 performances. What people need to see is that level of consistency maintained over more than a couple of games to prove its not a flash in the pan performance.
Radford has yet to prove he is right the man capable of taking this club onto success and he has made quite a few mistakes and probably one of his biggest was to castigate the fans particularly when performances have been so poor.
As I say if they can maintain the same level shown against Cas for the next 4 or 5 games then maybe people will then start to give some praise but after 18 months of dire rugby it aint gonna happen over night as I've said before we have seen too many false dawns in the last 8/9 years, it will take time to erase all that.
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| Quote *1865*="*1865*"This is where this argument falls down. Radford is hammered on here, even to the point of personal abuse (from some) and hailed as one of the worst coaches in recent history, we start to win games and he's only 'had an input' and 'it can't be that he's suddenly become a good coach'.
My take on it is that we've had a (much needed) overhaul in our halfbacks and finally have two of fairly decent quality. However, they've taken time to develop an understanding. This progress was hampered by Sneyd's injury.
On the subject of Sneyd, I think he's an off the cuff player that the players are only just getting used to playing with.
Radford was also hammered for saying things would improve once Ellis was back, but he constantly attracts 3 or 4 defenders, this creates space elsewhere making it easy for the halves. So he wasn't wrong, was he?'"
He was indeed derided on here for his comments re Ellis and others coming back. As things stand now his comments have been shown to be pretty much on the mark. I already put my views on the halves earlier which echo yours. It's a shame about the two one point defeats this year - reverse those and we'd be 4th now and there'd be no conversation on here about 'dire' rugby and some magical change of approach and performance.
That's ifs and buts though - we need to string some more wins together to make up for those losses. At least we're no longer having to play with 3 hookers.
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| Quote Doom&Gloom Merchant="Doom&Gloom Merchant"Bumpy mentioned it as a possibility.
'"
Oh dear, you really don't understand irony do you  the fact there was a big rolling eyes icon after that should have being the dead giveaway. No matter, if you truly honestly think that a poster would be serious enough to suggest that fan pressure is the reason our attack has changed these last two games you need to give yourself a hard bump on the head..see what I did there... 
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