Why? Undersoil heating is not cheap. For just a handful of games every year it is hardly worth the outlay. However, Saints have invested heavily in the pitch itself. It has been designed such that it can take a significant rainfall without any undue effects whatsoever. I think spending on that rather than undersoil heating is a far more sensible option given the amount of rain we get in a year. Also, one of the selling points to the council during the planning phase was that it was a 'green' stadium. It has a special kind of boiler (no idea about the technicalities of it but it is 'green') and uses rainwater for plumbing needs. There are other green features as well. Installing undersoil heating could hardly be called green I should imagine.



I don't know why some Wigan fans are obsessed with the relative sizes of the two stadia. Wigan is a bigger town and so a higher number of supporters would be expected, has had access to a newer stadium for a lot longer (Knowsley Road was off putting to Saints fans for a long time) and has a premier league soccer club sharing the facilities (soccer generally attracting greater numbers than rugby league). 18,000 is fine for Saints. The club has now sold 9000 season tickets, which is a first, and the magic number 10,000 is not beyond the realms of possibility given the length of time to the start of the new season. Building bigger was feasible but at the time of designing the club believed it preferable (and more realistic) to keep the capacity similar to Knowsley Road but build the stadium to a higher spec. I'm glad they did that as it is a fantastic stadium. I can't see Saints ever needing more than 18,000 places but it would be great if one day we did.



On the point about the club 'treating' the fans to substandard facilities, that fans had to go to Knowsley Road for so long was not actually the club's fault. For the last 20 years the club has been trying, and failing, to secure the necessary finance and planning permission to build a new stadium. Ten years ago they got as close as putting up a sign announcing the new stadium, strangely enough on the same site as the new stadium now stands. Given the costs involved in cleansing and servicing any site where a new stadium could be built, the club needed the financial support of the Council, which it didn't fully secure until we had a hung Council. It was during that period that the money for infrastructure work to the former UGB site was forthcoming from the Council and planning permission was granted. The club had the right man in charge to take the process forward and hey presto, we have a new stadium.

I would have thought that building a new stadium where the spectators were guaranteed to stay dry would have been a good idea. Whoever signed off that initial Saints stadium should have been shot (best Jeremy Clarkson mode) However we all know Mr. Teflon will blame someone else. The fact that Saints have had to borrow a large amount of money to complete the project is being swept to one side. They would rather talk about a bloody bridge with lights.





The fur coat and no knickers stadium is probably an apt description.





But the point regarding undersoil heating is valid.

You won't find many Saints fans disagreeing with you on that point, me included. It was worse, too, because originally there was no wall around the stadium either. It was due to be a wooden fence! However, as has been said many times before, planning permission has been granted for perforated cladding to be installed around the rest of the stadium. While that might not be completed by the start of the new season, it will be completed shortly after.





You seem to be inordinately obsessed with the fact that Saints have borrowed money to build a brand new stadium. I would like to know of one organisation that does not borrow money for a new build. Can you suggest one? Also to be borne in mind is that due to the current economic climate, Taylor Wimpey wanted £1.5 million less for the purchase of Knowsley Road than had originally been agreed and given that Taylor Wimpey were a major partner in the whole thing going ahead, Saints had no choice but to negotiate down. That accounts for a sizeable chunk of the money loaned and is hardly the fault of Saints. The new cladding will account for some more and then there are fit out costs which the club has to pay for in addition to the build.



But Saints have secured some excellent sponsorship, they have sold all their corporate boxes, they have sold 9000 season tickets (10,000 and they will have earned well over £2 million in season ticket sales alone for 2012) and there are already corporate events being booked into the stadium. You have no idea of the level of revenue Saints are securing to fund their loan, which given it was provided by a friend of the chairman means it will likely be at a competitive rate.



Your obsession with our finances looks decidedly unhealthy.





That's coz it's a frickin awesome bridge. Oh, and the Council paid for that, not Saints.

What of this council funding you suddenly agree with?



My folks, and a good number of Wigan fans, live in Garswood, and pay their Council tax to St Helens... it is very much of their opinion that they would rather see their council tax spent on public services, not private ventures. I'm not actually certain it's legal to spend council money on private ventures....

I agree with any Council funding that brings jobs to the town, which is exactly what this Council funding has done.





Very good. They can always move to Wigan if they don't like what they see.

Why should they? They've lived there well before the backhanded councillers were in "power". The council are supposed to be the voice of the people.

If you go on the assumption that it is very unlikely that matches in March will be off due to frozen pitches, we will have 2/3 home games in Feb that might be in danger. The cost of inputting undersoil heating, maintaining it, fueling it when operational can not possibly be justified by the small risk that a couple of games will be called off in February and we will lose some ticket sales and corp hos by holding these games midweek.

Indeed. And we now have a shiny new stadium! The people have spoken.

'"

Dont toy with us lets have a look?

bloody hell I started a right argument there didnt I,icon_smile.gif, anyway the lit up bridge does look awesome, thanks St Helens council. I fully agree with you spending £2,000,000 on it out of council tax money,

I seam to recall a fair bit of council work being done on the surrounding infrastructure around the stade de crust to. That road network did not just pop up over night. Maybe the Saints fans living in Wigan would like a rebate also or maybe you could just accept that major developments, both commercial, social and sporting require infrastructure some of which is the responsibility of the council.



Unless of course you suggest that Saints should have built the bridge and therefore have rights for crossing it. Therefore opening something the council did not want, which would be people going to the new development disconnected from the rest of the town and pulling yet more shops out of the town centre and therefore reducing rents to the council as those shops pulled out. Any new development would be in direct competition with the town centre rather than linked up. For 2 million I'm sure Saints would have gone for more car parking space than a bridge, but then that would leave the council owned car parks rather emptier on match day.





I can think of many things the council could have spent 2 million on. But in the end it's a commercial decision, no one was going to redevelop knowsley road and the current board could only bank roll the losses for so long. Saints going bust and taking yet another business out of St. Helens would not have helped the council. In the end the council have a new development, new business' new revenue streams as opposed to the other option which was a slow death for saints and no new development.