I would blame Mathers. If he could actually play at FB, then we wouldn't of needed to get rid of him and then move Sam to FB. Which wouldn't have resulted in Finch being brought over and him having to bring Hoffman with him as they can't live without each other, resulting in Gleeson becoming jealous and then...



"Joel wouldn't have played so much at centre. He wouldn't have scored that try at Wembley and as such wouldn't have seemed such an attraction to Rugby Union Clubs"

which is what i posted earlier in not so many words.



at 2nd row he would have gone largely un noticed by the rah rah boys

For all his problems part of me still prays he has sorted himself out, his fall out was more with Maguire then Wane or Lenagan and we'd sign him back.



The sensible part of me says though this guy is a waster and a leopard doesn't change it's spots and by taking him on would ruin a lot of hard work Maguire and the staff put in to make the place a hardworking and professional environment.

And who did he fall out with over on Humberside ?



The game in general is short of centres at the moment but I suspect that Mr.Gleeson isn't too bright a lad.

I did it about 6 months ago, because the job I've taken is more interesting and gets me out of bed in a morning, and there's more to life than money.



I take your point though.

But only when money is taken out of the equation, apparently.



IMO if he moves it will be down to a combination of factors, like everything else. With hindsight, we played our part by showing RU what a decent inside centre he could be thanks to Gleeson but you can't escape from the fact that £70K or thereabouts is not good moiney for a full time professional sportsman.

70k is good but 3-400k is much better and for doing an easier job. I could understand if it was 10-20k more and people were moaning because he was moving for the money but he stands to get about a 300% pay rise minimum. Im sorry but job satisfaction only gets you so far. Add to the fact that when he retires he could basically do what he wanted within reason for the rest of his life he would be insane to turn it down.

It depends whether you believe the £300-400k figure, which I don't. I was talking to an international yawnion defence coach a couple of years ago. he said then that the average wage for a yawnion player was £150k. I would expect JT to demand more than the average but can't see it being double. maybe a one-off signing on fee.

The union salary cap is £4.2m and you can pick a player of choice not to count on the SC so in theory your highest earner wouldnt count. £4.2m divided by 30 is 140k so thats the average but same as league it doesnt work like that and the better players will be commanding more so £300k isnt beyond belief.

Especially when the RFU may have their sticky mits involved too. If he is on 80k at Wigan and they offered him 140k i dont think he would of took that after what he said a few months back. Its taken a very good offer to get him to even consider it and then by the sounds accept it imo.



I was having a thought yesterday about his move too but it may be a bit crazy

Does anybody think that being in Sam's shadow may of been a factor in him considering a move away? We all know Sam is class and he gets all the attention and accolades and anyone outside of Wigan when they hear Tomkins will instantly think Sam Tomkins?



I may be miles off but could that of had a bearing?

I cant see him being jealous of Sam TBH, you can see how close they are when Joel starts banging the heads of anyone who gets cheap shots on Sam. Its the money and lifestyle what yawnion can offer. Joel could do the next 10 years in union earning 250k plus for basic then sponsorships and international rewards etc and be made for life when hes done.

I couldn't name one Saracens player but would guess they have a number of British & overseas internationals. I doubt they would be paying someone who hasn't played the game twice as much basic salary as the average international. Maybe as a signing on fee.