Well done W71 for his recent posts.

Just goes to show what is really happening, and positives are there when you look hard enough instead of picking up on easy snipes at the sport that appear on here too often.

3 years ago Widnes went bump, wrote off some debt and a bloke visually pumped money in on plan to achieve a dream. They have had far more recent success than Leigh and were 'THE' club in the decades before SL. They said the right things and united the fanbase.

We spat the dummy out and wasted a move to a fantastic stadium with awful decisions and clueless marketing, whilst AT poured in hundreds of thousands in the background.

We must now unite behind the business sense of IM whilst we pray the marketing/PR element comes up to scratch.

RL is about 20 or so clubs, those not in SL struggle to survive competing against clubs with no fans, no ambition and carp stadiums. 2 divisions of 10 provide a base for the ambitious clubs with fan base and history, whilst improving the intensity of the top tier.

The suggestion is far too sensible. Trouble is that the rugby league doesn't deal in sensible. Also the clubs who are already in super league only think of their own self interest.

Again, the idea is players will have a menu of opportunities... north and south, there will be chances to play May to July, like the SW RLC does now, but for more committed and/or higher level players, there will be chances to play in Februrary - September leagues.



If there's enough interest, there may well still be winter competitions, too... perhaps, again, a Sept-April comp and/or a short, Oct - Feb comp.



Some union players play a short summer season of league in the SW. Some league players in the North may try union (or footy or hockey) if they have their winters free. Some serious cricketers may stop playing RL... or may play league on Saturdays and cricket on Sundays, or midweek, in summertime.



The ambition, though, is that there will no longer be 'pro' and 'amateur' clubs and players... just rugby league clubs and players, all in one game, one structure, one pyramid. Play as much or as little as you like, play as seriously and at whatever level, but you will still be part of one intergrated sport.

And yet the RFL are encouraging Championship clubs to find ' sugar daddies '

How can 'a club' speak?

If you mean our Ch Exec hasn't he been proved right? or how many times do they have to be 'bailed out' take place (plus The Widnes Chairman echoed Mr Rowley's sentiments again conveniently forgot) plus he hasn't said anything publically about the matter since or are you just a muck rakeing Rowley hater? because Mr Thomas hasn't said anything and I dont think the water carrier has either.

Please point out where at ANY TIME have I mentioned the size of our crowds in the context you said?

Just answer this one question 'Did the EXPERIMENT in South Wales work?' with a straight YES or NO

What is or do you think would be the Centurions opinion of this plan ?

I started watching pro RL over 50 years ago.



Well into the seventies RL clubs used to be able to approach talented RU players and sign them because we could offer them money.



RU had virtually no sponsors and poor crowds. Poor crowds because they had a few "Big clubs" NO Promotion and Relegation and a boring spectator sport. This amateur sport has a club in most towns in England and Wales and a good few towns in Scotland. It is National.



What did they do ? Well they introduced P & R and assorted sponsors and went pro. Most folk who watch RU do so because of the social side.They do not know the rules but they go because thats where their mates go and thats the place to be on matchdays and someone might give you a lobster buttie for free. And whilst the game is on they are in the bar. Of course if it is at Twickers they are sat in their seats asleep or singing boozing songs.



There are still only a few RU clubs who attract reasonable crowds and surprisingly a lot less clubs then RL that attract decent attendances.



Since Superleague our International side is worse than it was. Anyone with talent is poached by RU and we have abolished P & R



Our game has sold out to one sponsor and it has cost what ? Do I have to tell you ? Without competition there is mediocrity. We will have Crusaders next season with no hope of a top eight finish and pathetic crowds.Quins just the same and the season after that a side like Wakefield probably destined for the dustbin.



Amateur RL in Devon whilst killing off a sport folk have been born too seems a quite expensive deal to me.

errr a spokeman/representative/press release/news conference. Hope I have enlightened you there?





I have said before that I thought Mr Rowley was doing well when we got relegated for a few weeks by not going off on one.

But we are still seeing the "Whats the point?" fallout from when he didn't accept the club was not ready for SL, and had to blame the RFL/Welsh for not being ready for SL - which deflected blame in the short term, but we still face a battle of converting the lost "Whats the point?" fans. And yes I am still p'd off about it, because its a difficult thing to now reverse.



I didn't mention our club. I responded to this

"How many will watch Wakefield (I apologise to them) Salford (apologise) Castleford (and again) Huddersfield (and again) with no chance of promotion for 3 years?"

....and similar that get posted by others.





NO. But anyone that wants the great game to expand would encourage outside money to promote the game in a expansion area.

I think our Chief Exec (who was hammered in some quarters of the sport - but not all, as people seem to have forgotten) for speaking honestly must have heard this news and been very annoyed that our governing body could be so easily hoodwinked into believing so many false promises.

However as you say Fred, Leigh havn't commented on the goings on at Celtic /Crusaders / North Wales in that clubs short existance.



If anyone cares to look at the Video that Fred did of the Shirt / Squad sponsorship recently they'll realise that our club is getting its act together on & off the field and is starting to look the part.

why should he reverse what has turned out to be right, and has been admitted in some quarters of the RFL but NOT publicly

so you dont agree that those clubs I mentioned wont or wouldnt see a drop in attendances over a three year period stuck down in the championship? if that be so please explain as all did when last down in the tier below SL thereby proving that even when winning most games that it matters not what their crowds be in the lower league as attendances will go up in a higher division even though the win ratio went down -ours did as did Widnes's and ours has seen a progressive drop since relegation so to compare or try and compare crowd ratios in the two divisions would be false for that reason alone.

so in saying NO you agree that throwing money away time after time to promote a club in South Wales is a waste of time - I do and history has seen me right three times at least, how many times should it be tried when its obvious that its not wanted

and i'm sorry but 'outside money' like was spent in South Wales (or as it would now seem not ALL that was said was spent)

is just money ill thought out and spent and was a waste, which in itself is like a crime when there is little or no money around, what a waste especially in todays economic climate. To expand the game without first laying foundations is tant amount to being criminal as a tree can't grow without roots, and therein lies the problem with rugby league, we must first strengthen the roots in all areas and let the people who know the best do what they do best without interference from 'big brother'.



As Jenky rightly points out at last we are starting to do things in a more proffesional way (another example was the fashion show) and long may it continue, as long as some allow it to happen and loose the old grudges and still being tee'd off at things that went on in the past be it the distant or near past, things have changed and its about time some realised that, and started to really support and get behind The Leigh Centurions.

That is what has happened at Widnes and must happen 'here'

fred do you honestly believe there are long,long term plans in place at this club?.

do you believe if/when AT steps aside he'll hand the reins over to another person who will carry on the work that he is now presiding over?.

when i say long term fred i dont mean 4/5 years i mean at least a generation.