Les Boyd was charisma personified when players actually had some charisma, and were not afraid to show it. He was also the toughest and most skillful forward I've watched and the finest and most inspirational captain I've seen. Neither Carvell or Monaghan would have got remotely near two successive Kangaroo tours, Morley ......... maybe.



I beleive Sir Les once called Kevin Tamati the toughest player he had ever encountered, and that's enough for me.



And Bob Jackson was just a Ben Westwood style machine, and a great clubman and character.



Collectively they were awesome, and no-one took many liberties with them (particularly with Sanderson, Roberts & Greg behind them) on the field. Off the field, all three were real gentlemen and very proud to serve the club.

Not for the first time I do not see what point you are trying to make.



Without detracting from the excellent contributions Morley, Monaghan and Carvell made, they did indeed play in a league of full time professionals which means they played on a more even playing field. Furthermore they did not win three challenge cups on their own. They were an important part of a good side.



The reason Boyd, Tamati and Jackson are lionised was that, although they did play in a part time side when the only full time side was the Wigan all stars, home and away, this front row, though underdogs, really took it to Wigan good style. Andy Goodway told me that he hated playing against Warrington at that time because they knew they would have to earn their corn and have a torrid time in the bargain. One of the Warrington/Wigan fixtures at that time was described as World War Three and was Rugby League theatre par excellence. On their way to winning the 1986 Premiership Final the Wire team, with this front row, beat Wigan at Wigan which, at that time was the stuff of folk lore. I personally think that this pack would have led us to more glory but for the defection of Andy Gregory to Wigan as he was undoubtedly world class and a vital member of the side.



I do not like to compare heroes from different generations as the context in which the game is played changes and the game is much more sanitised today but, without detracting from the many great front rowers we have had over the years, Boyd, Tamati, and Jackson were indeed a fiercely formidable front row.

No surprises that Sally turns all "Rogues" on us and brings out the "what did they win?" line. Rickey Bibey has two challenge cup winners medals from his time at Saints and wigan.... he was still an average plodder with limited talent.... I dont understand Sals disdain for the phrase "Boyd Tamati Jackson"...its like a red rag to a bull......



Apparently when it suits Sals arguments, the full time professional league is an indication of how better this current Wire side is than anything that has gone before. But when a criticism of the game in general is to be made the standards of the game are lower than in the late 80's when we were "closest to beating the Aussies" etc.. when we "had players like hanley gregory and Edwards"...etc etc. Make your mind up. which is the weakest period for rugby League I cant tell.



To put everyone in the picture had that wigan side not been So great, and it was season after season choc full of talent, Wires would have had a pretty impressive honours record. More than any other club we suffered at their hands in finals, semi finals, and pipped to league titles.



as New year rolls around remember this one:

Wigan 4 Warrington 6 - New Years Day Thursday 1st January 1987

Venue: Central Park, Wigan

Competition: Stones Bitter Championship

Kick Off: 3:00pm



Wigan Backs: 1. Steve Hampson, 2. Dean Bell, 3. David Stephenson, 4. Joe Lydon, 5. Richard Russell, 6. Ellery Hanley, 7. Shaun Edwards

Wigan Forwards:8. Graeme West, 9. Martin Dermott, 10. Brian Case, 11. Ian Roberts, 12. Rob Louw, 13. Andy Goodway

Wigan Subs Usedicon_sad.gifNone)



Wigan Triesicon_sad.gifNone)

Wigan Goalsicon_biggrin.gifavid Stephenson 1, Joe Lydon 1



Warrington Backs: 1. Brian Johnson, 2. Rick Thackray, 3. Paul Cullen, 4. Joe Ropati, 5. Mark Forster, 6. Ken Kelly, 7. Paul Bishop

Warrington Forwards: 8. Les Boyd, 9. Kevin Tamati, 10. Bob Jackson, 11. Gary Sanderson, 12. Mark Roberts, 13. Mike Gregory

Warrington Subs Used: Tony Humphries (replaced Les Boyd - Half Time)



Warrington Tries: Paul Cullen

Warrington Goalsicon_razz.gifaul Bishop 1





Having beaten league leaders Saints on Boxing Day, Wigan now had third place Warrington to contend with on New Years Day at Central Park. It was a dress rehearsal for the John Player Trophy Final that would follow in ten days time. =#0040FFWarrington had been the only side, other than Australia, to beat Wigan this season and looked odds on again when taking the lead in the 30th Minute with a try from Paul Cullen that was converted by Paul Bishop for 6-0. David Stephenson had missed an early penalty goal attempt but managed to kick on to bring that lead down to 6-2 before half time. However, he missed another on 47 minutes that proved costly in the end because the only other scoring came from a Joe Lydon penalty later in the half. Warrington were hanging on at the end, but did so to complete a league double over Wigan and also put themselves right in the title race. Consolation for Wigan was that leaders Saints didn't take advantage of this slip up, losing 16-10 at Widnes.



Attendance:17,106

---------------------------------------------------------

New years day at a bursting Central park, beating Wigan, being the only side to beat them in the league all season

I know how good that was, I know how good Boyd Tamati and Jackson Were...........I was there

+1

+1



A victory that took place a few short days after Sir Les Boyd had inspired us to thrash Widnes (themselves no slouches at the time) in the JPS semi, in which he kept a certain Kurt Sorenson and his dubious friends in his backpocket all match. Kevin didn't play in that match, Jacko did if I recall. Wigan of course, went on to win the final as they invariably did in those days with a full-time squad but the fact remains, that front row was a collective jewel in Wires crown.

+1 as well..didnt paul bishop get red carded for fighting with one of the hulmes culminating with him missing the final..(sure there was something dodgy about his 2 match ban)..i remember sir les and sorenson going at it again..and how good was brian johnson that afternoon

Didn't wigan only lose two games that season....both to us? Our front row this year is cracking but it's got some way to go to eclipse BTJ!

I was there too





I remember us having a decent win ratio at CP during that era. Far better than we could have reasonably expected.

Me too, biscuit......and I'm still not dry, 28 years on.



IT P155ED IT DOWN, that day. But the win more than made up for it. I can still see a soaked Paul Cullen grinning from ear to ear.



There have been 3 happy periods in my Wire watching life



1. The Tony Smith era, starting from the first Wembley win



2. The Johnny Davies season. Bateman superb. Kelly "Genius" Shellford, Mackey (RIP) and to some extent Ellis, Myler. All this class, on the back of (let's be honest) a bit of an average pack.



3. The Boyd era from Sept 85 'til the end of 87. The next couple of years after were showing the signs of Les and Kevin getting a little creaky in their dotage, but still quality. Add to these, the likes of both Gregorys, Mark (manlove) Roberts and a raw Gary Sanderson. Class again, on the back of (again, being honest) a bit of an average 3/4 line.



Now, to me, I can't split eras 2 and 3, but they're better than era 1.



Eras 2 and 3 just oozed excitement and anticipation from finishing college/work on a Friday afternoon until leaving the pub on a Sunday night. Today's team (as good as they are) just doesn't "float my boat" as much.



(imo) there's more to life than winning trophies. Eras 2 and 3 embody this for me

I don't have disdain for great Wire players of the past....someone asked about comparing them to Morley, Monaghan and Carvell and I argued for Morley, Monaghan and Carvell.



The 'semi professional league' line is the one usually that gets brought out when people talk about how good the great Wigan team was - "yes but they had no opposition".



I do agree with you that there were great individual players around in the past like those guys you say, that don't seem to be around today and for me the strongest era of rugby league was around the mid 1990s just before Super League came in - 1994 season stands out as a highlight for me in terms of the strength of the GB side and the Australia side, and also the great club sides of those eras like Wigan and Canberra.



I'm not knocking great players from our history but I do try and bring some realism in to the old rose tinted glasses brigade, we've had these type of arguments before and you don't tend to like it being pointed out that Warrington in the good old days were a very inconsistent team that most seasons finished mid table or lower, and had some good Cup runs, good memories yes but don't overrate them. Whereas the Tony Smith teams have been consistently right near the top.

What jobs did Boyd Tamati and Jackson have?

Warrington's pack was formidable then. Boyd and Tamati are two of the hardest forwards I've ever seen

Wasn't Bob Jackson a binman?