In all seriousness I think it is too early for anybody to start talking about the decline of St. Helens or the resurgence of Wigan.



The points most have made in this thread are valid ones. St. Helens have got an ageing squad and have lost key players in recent years (Sculthorpe, Anderson, Long, Gilmour) who will be hard to replace. Wigan do have reason to be gleeful at the moment as well with a new, well respected and promising young coach joining us from Melbourne and some talented young players like Joe Mellor and Ben Davies in the reserves vying for a first team berth.



Nothing is quite as black and white as it looks on paper however. Although Wigan's youth setup is strong our main competitor this season was the Saints who beat our youngsters in the league earlier in the season so there is promise for St. Helens as well as Wigan.



The structure & management of a club also need to be looked at in order to see how well a club will 'evolve' during a period of transition. Mick Potter has been criticised at St. Helens so far but has previously done well with Catalan & led St. Helens to a Grand Final this season with a less formidable squad than during the Anderson era. Wigan in the past have always had problems in promoting the right youth and their over-dependence on antipodeans who have never performed. Hopefully with Maguire in charge Wigan can sign quality and give more youth a chance.



The final point is the youngsters themselves. Wigan talk up their academy players but it doesn't mean they will be successful - for every Sam Tomkins there is a Thomas Coyle. It is quite possible that with maturity the Saints youngsters can supersede certain Wigan players who are currently better than they are -- and vice versa.



It will be an interesting couple of years for both clubs and, all trolling aside, it could be very fruitful for both sides in years to come.

Not all that sure the coach gets much say at wigan tbh. They seem to get bought this aussie and that aussie by upper management and be expected to get the best out of them.



I'd say Hudds and Wire will be more of a threat to the top ranks next year than Wigan.

According to Mr. Lenagan this is no longer an issue at the Wigan club. The reason we have not signed players for next season other than salary cap constraints is because the issue of who would be coach meant players couldn't be brought in.



There is an element of upper management support for certain players, Mr. Lenagan himself stated that some players Wigan were interested in was dismissed when consulting Maguire. I think Wigan is more of a joint venture in terms of signing players nowadays than in the Lindsay period.

It's strange how peoples views differ. I was at the Wigan shareholders meeting and one of shareholders asked Ian Lenegan if we should go back to the old way where the board signed the players and the coach coached them?



Lenegan said that was not his way as he believed it was the coaches job to "identify" the players and his job to sign them if a) they were available and b) Wigan could fit them under the salary cap structure.

That's the only way to operate. The coach has to have some input into the personnel being signed otherwise you end up with a Shevchenko-Mourinho/Chelski situation.

im an outsider with no points to score.ive been a hull fc since the mid sixties and seen a lot of ups and downs.it makes me laugh when people talk on here of a st helens decline.in all the 45 years ive been watching rl,i would say i have never known st helens to have a poor side.all the teams you care to mention,warrington,wigan,bradford,leeds,hull fc ,etc,etc have all had the bad times ,but i cannot recall saints ever been out of the top 4 clubs in the last 40 years.

Thanks for your post ditchley. We love you!

He's absolutely right. I've been a Wire since 1966 and I can't remember a weak Saints. If you are in decline then I really hope that Wire are as poor as you next year!

I just thought it would be interesting to look back at this topic and see how some of the Saints fans couldn't or refused to see their decline coming. With the benefit of hindsight some of the Saints fans comments make interesting reading. I should stress that I am not digging this up to gloat as I believe a strong Saints club is good for rugby league and I want to see some good derby games now that Wigan are on the up. I don't want to see Saints in too much of a decline. Coming second to Wigan is good enough for me!

Not digging this up to gloat ? Grow up

Good retort,but Hull havn`t been at the same dizzy heights as Saints these past seasons,so I don`t see the connection.