The main point of yours I disagree with, Kirkstaller, is the argument that people are not born gay and their sexuality can be changed through religion. From my experiences I can assure you that nothing in my upbringing has caused me to be gay. For as long as I've felt sexual attraction it has been towards men (saying this you can still send Cheryl Cole my way cause I would...) and to me it is as natural/simple as my like for pasta and dislike for cottage cheese. It's not something I have a choice over but I'd be dammed if I let it get in the way of my achieving anything in my life.



Like yourself (if my memory serves me correct) I'm a whistle-blower within the RFL and I can honestly say that my colleagues and the structures within the RFL create an environment which makes me feel comfortable to be open about my sexuality. Not to everyone, I don't feel the need to shout it from the roof tops and ram it down everyone's throat (no pun intended) as it is my personal life. It is just excellent to be able to have an environment where I can be open with colleagues/friends and not have to hide my personal life from them (like I have felt the need to in previous situations be in school/college/university).



I see your intolerances coming from religious belief rather than prejudice and as such, I don't see your views as being ill-thought out as they are based on your well researched opinions (based on material that you feel is credible) rather than your unwillingness to accept the difference of others. I respect this far more than off-the-cuff homophobic remarks you get.



Back on topic - I think the concept of the anti-homophobia game (it is actually going to comprise of a round of matches a la State of Mind round this season) will help to further improve the inclusive environment that Rugby League provides. I hope it can also help in tackling the stereotypes that some people have of gay individuals (this has nothing to do with anything said in this thread as it has all been intelligent debate) and come to show that the difference between you and I starts and stops at who I sleep with. Kudos on the weigh your anchor in poo bay whoever came up with it - that's a new one to me and did make me laugh.

on the subject of religous tollerance .We have just had thanksgiving over here and ive been watching a few historacle tv shows about this holiday.The pilgrim father's were puritans, or christian fundimentalists who traveled on the Mayflower to Escape religous intollerance in England.When they first landed and started scouting around they stumbled on an empty native village,but not deserted ,,they proceeded to plunder its winter stores ,there excuse for that was "god has led us to this" thou shalt not steal was ignored.The natives helped them in the early days,showed them how to plant ,what vegatation to eat etc .the natives did this because their population was depleated by desease brought by earlier Europeans,and they too needed help.The plymouth pilgrims still thought of the natives as savages and godless heathens and god had led them to the promised land and they still followed the bible as they later proceeded with ethnic cleansing.

From someone of my vintage the most common exposure (oo-er) to gay men was on TV where the absolute stereotype has not changed one iota despite all of the efforts to educate and assimilate, and although there is a distinction to be drawn between being "camp" and homosexual (the two can be exclusive), most peoples image of a gay man is very definitely a camp as a row of pastel tents persona in the style of Charles Hawtry, Kenneth Williams, Larry Grayson, etc, etc which are personified today in exactly the same way by the likes of Alan Carr, Graeme Norton, Dale Winton, Anthony Cotton, Gok Wan etc etc.



Its this acceptance of camp behaviour in show business (all of the above named people were very popular and much loved by the public) that leads I believe to the acceptable use of what you might call "a gay insult", things like "oooh thats a bit gay" are not used with any maliciousness or prejudice and probably wouldn't be hurtful to a gay person, indeed you will hear them use such phrases themselves, Alan Carr last night on Live At The Apollo being a prime example.



I suspect that the context of Elliot Whiteheads comments were probably just that, although he has to be a prime example of a big daft lad to publicly broadcast them and we can place him firmly in the filing cabinet of people who think that Twitter is a private messaging service, he was using a "gay" tag in a light hearted manner and in doing so was highlighting the fact that homophobia, unlike racism, does have a lighter side to it which is exploited constantly by the entertainment media.

I work with a young 23 year old post-grad who recently confided in my about his homosexuality and he often uses the term 'gay' as a dig or in banter - "that's proper gay" or "don't be so gay".

He's obviously seen you out and about on that Harley of yours.....

Weren't the pilgrim fathers actually leaving England because they wanted everyone to abide by their puritanical viewpoint? Rather than being actually sufferring religious intolerance in England.

Oi - being a Harley owner is the hight of butchness... OK wrong choice of words.

My brother-in-law has just got back into Harleys again, this one is his eighth, he took my youngest for a ride on it when we were up there last month - now she wants one.

Well I am not as well read as some on here,but I'm just writing what I remember of and how I saw that history program,but the point I'm trying to make is they interpreted the bible to suit them at every opportunity.Like when they came across the winter storage barrow they plundered it immediedltly and said "god has led us here,this is our deliverence" whilst ignoring the commandment "thou shalt not steal".I am using it as an analogy of a previous poster's interpretation of the bible about gay's.I once heard some one say "god didnt write the bible ,it was written by men.. the new testement any way how many 100 years since Christ died?

I watched a "who do you think you are U.S" the other night and it was Hollywood actress Ashley Judd and one of her ancestors was traced and found to be William Brewster who was on the mayflower and in his case he was a wanted man and writs issued by the Arch bishop of York because he didn't abide fully by the laws of the Church and was imprisoned prior to his departure.

When all was said and done the impression i got was that they were "hounded out" for questioning strict Church laws and beliefs and wanting a more "open view" approach.

Best way to tackle homophobia.................

One man to slow the momentum, one to clamp the ball and Jeff Lima to (gently) sweep the legs.

Then turn him on his back and peel away as slowly as the ref will allow......... simples



Tickets available now for a practical demonstration DW 5-45pm Feb 11th.

She could get a little 900 Sportster to start her off she doesn't have to go straight for a big one.