So despite your claim that Hardaker cannot pass for toffee you have nothing to say about the actual instances in recent games where he's done the very thing you say he cannot do. Why is that?



I've given recent instances all within the past month that's shown he can and does pass (although unclear if he's paid in toffee or not but it's a possibility) so here's your opportunity to back up your soundbite with examples of poor passes or I'd even be interested in the passes you think he should have thrown but didn't. Or are you going to do your usual and expect people to simply accept your opinion without the need to back it up with examples.



BTW although I didn't use it earlier Hardaker also put Ryan Hall over for his only try in the recent past. Is that one in eight games now? I thought this Joel Moon of yours was supposed to be laying tries on a plate for fun for his winger? They've had time now to form an understanding - played every minute of every game this season as a pairing without disruption and under a quality coach how difficult is it to get good early ball in their hands to wreak havoc.

There are always exceptions.



My toffee comment was a deliberate exaggeration intended as a general and light hearted aside rather than a precise assessment. IMO Hardaker is not a good passer and as such has limitations at fullback. This doesn't mean he isn't worth his place or that I do not appreciate his contributions. But he may well be a better winger than a fullback.



Lighten up tvoc. You do seem more preoccupied with picky verbal exactness rather than the obvious point being made

When the only examples given for scrutiny are counter to the claim that Hardaker cannot pass for toffee - is it accurate to describe these instances as exceptions? They'll only become exceptions when we finally get to see your list that you've based this claim on - people will note you've been asked for counter examples but have chosen to not give any as yet.



I'll perhaps lighten up when people are able to validate their opinions with examples that we can at least discuss.



I've given several instances in just the past month where Hardaker has given good ball both left (to Hall) and right (to Watkins) that has resulted in tries.

It has been noted.

In a very recent game Hardaker game a murder pass (which might even have been forward as well) to young Singleton I think it was. When he played centre he showed a great reluctance to pass on many occassions. He is a devastating runner with a great physical presence but IMO creative passing is not his strongest suit. He is young and may well improve this aspect of his play particularly with a Champion coach

He must be learning well from our long terms pivots then.



One hospital pass? Hardly conclusive.



You word it 'reluctance to pass' when he was at centre. The other way to read it is that he backs himself to do some damage and go on his own. Which he did. Ablett is similar when he plays centre, I'd say his strength to break the line and to make metres driving is stronger than his ability to pass.

Related on these hospital/ineffective passes, bit of a bug bear as viewer.



Just looking back to the Hull game, the ball may have gone flat through 2 ball players hands before it land with the forward. By the time he gets it the defence was up and around him and made jack go forward. A wasted play in the set of 6.

Something we see every week BB when we attack so flat and utilise the "line ball" so often.

Nothing conclusive but wasn't intelligent reading of the situation. But it is just my opinion. You word it "he backs himself to do damage and go on his own" The other way to read that is a bit greedy. I have already said his physical strength is way ahead of his passing abilities so we agree then?



Hardaker is a big asset to the side but Watkins showed some lovely stuff in attack when he was at FB which was very fruitfull. Be interesting to see if he keeps developing his skills.

We don't help ourself. Old cliche but we are our own worst enemy sometimes.

I'd say his amibition with ball in hand combined with his footwork and speed are in front of his passing abilities. No brainer. So we're on the same page there more or less.



He is developing week in week out. We have a class player on our hands and he will develop further no doubt. The individual talents I talk about above he's had more practice at and how he beds in at FB (linking in with his team, decision making, timings) will take longer to fine tune. Wasn't too long ago he was carving his way as an up and coming centre, now he's an established star fullback.

Sounds more like a recent example of a starting hooker's pass.



As you can't find anything easily identifiable (very recent, unknown recipient - all a bit vague) perhaps the way forward is to look out for future examples rather than past ones and drop them in to here for discussion.



Who knows you might even come to realise your critique is unjustified and you may moderate your opinion.



I don't mind Hardaker not passing when he's capable of scoring the type of try he ran in last night but if a pass is on to a player in a better position I would still expect him to give it.







Examples? Oh I forgot you don't do examples - how about comparing Opta 'try assists' instead or would they be mis-leading?