Smith is massive on the technical side for sure but where he really turned Leeds around was on the psychological side - Leeds was a losing club with a losing mentality and he made them winners. That is the difference between a good coach and a great one.

Instead of thinking about theoretical combined teams of this and that make a list of the trophies he has won.



There's a lot on that list.



An excellent coach.

Reality is though, 6 seasons in charge at Warrington and no GF win to show for the teams they assembled is a disappointing return no matter how you look at it. If it wasn't Smith at Warrington and another coach so their was no emotional connection to his time at Leeds would you say no GF win was acceptable.....I doubt it.



At Leeds, yes the first year and a half were excellent at a time both Saints and Wigan had issues. Once Saints got their act together we fell massively behind them but managed to do them on one night in his last game.



Yes he's won trophies but he had teams that could do that, but those teams also lost a fair few, make a list of those....



Leeds



CCF - 2005

GF - 2005

CCsf - 2006 against a inexperienced in big games Hudds

Playoffs 2006 - similar vs Wire



Warrington



playoffs - 2011

Gf - 2012

Gf - 2013

CCsf - 2013 against an average Hull side

CCsf - 2014 against leeds could barely complete a set in the first half.



Considering that Wire's CC runs weren't the most toughest along the way then some context should be taken there. They beat Leeds twice in the final, but hell even Hull beat us in a final and we had to carefully tip-toe past Castleford to win it. Their other win against big game failure Huddersfield.



For the teams he had under his control he hasn't won as much as he should have done by a long chalk.



To go from LLS in 2011 with scoring over a thousand points to a very average W/L record in 2015 and a real fight to make the top 4 on their hands.....that's real backwards progress and one that wouldn't be tolerated by people on this board if it happened at Leeds.

Also it should be pointed out that the point of the thread was about Smith's teams in terms of recruitment/juniors under him because obviously a Wire fan is wondering how they'll move forward forward in terms of squad building.



Not whether he is a good coach so completely missing the point.

Yes, the poster focusing on how many trophies a coach wins is "missing the point".

How many GF wins did they have before Smith? How many CC wins?



If failing to win a GF is unacceptable then almost every coach every year is unacceptable.

I think the point he is making is a big club, i.e. Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Warrington. Look at the money Warrington have spent since Smith went there. Is a big club not winning a GF in 6 years acceptable? So not really a case of almost every coach.

My opinion of Smith at Wire is that he could have done better.



He has taken a team that was spending close to full cap and struggling to one which is competing for and winning trophies, though the pots seem to have dried up a bit recently.



Since 2010 (when Leeds gave up their stranglhold on the SL title) the sequence has been



WIG

LEE

LEE

WIG

STH



The SL title has been shared around the big teams, with no-one being dominant. However, Wire have always fallen short in the play-offs.



A former poster may describe them as flattrack bullies, who play open expansive rugby when there is little pressure or opposition is weak, but when the level gets upped, they can't quite find that extra 1% needed to win the GF.



That culture I feel is down to the coach, and is something we did show ourselves in the time he was in charge.

And yet Warrington have found themselves very capable of winning big games in the Challenge Cup under Smith.

Yes he is if he reads the opening post and sees what is actually being asked.....it isn't whether or not Smith is a good coach or how many trophies he's won btw.

No they aren't because different teams have different expectations. Reality is during Smith's years at Wire there has been only really 4 teams realistically good enough to win the GF (Wire, Leeds, Saints, Wigan)......only one of those teams haven't won it during his spell in charge.



And no Warrington didn't reach any SL GF's before he came, but how many of those seasons did they have a team thought of as good enough to reach Old Trafford?

Looking at the teams they had to play to win the trophy they were never given a hard route to the final



2009 (SL pos)

York

Fev

Hull KR (4)

Wigan (6)

Hudds (3)



2010

Fev

Hudds (5)

Bradford (10)

Catalans (14)

Leeds (4)



2012

Keighley

Bradford (9)

Catalans (4)

Hudds (7)

Leeds (5)



Leeds are the only team with any recent cup pedigree that they faced.



Cup wins are good and certainly better than a trophy-less season, but they are not the mark of a top team.