The thing with half backs is they rely is much on the forward pack they are playing behind. For the past few years, Gale has been playing behind a pretty strong pack. Would he look as good when playing behind a forward pack not making metres? No. For me, it was our forwards that lost us the GF, not Luke Gale. It’s really hard to attack the line when you are nowhere near it, and hard to put together a kicking game if your forwards keep dropping the ball.

Would McGuire have done as well playing for a mid-table team? Of course not. He’s had the luxury of playing in one of the best teams of the SL era, which isn’t a criticism of him.

Last year was a unique situation. Cas were a new team at the top, played great rugby and were playing against a Leeds team who have won it before. Have you ever thought it strange, given those circumstances, that so many neutrals wanted a Leeds win and were smug when cas lost? Do you ever wonder why?



It's because you were way too cocky. With all due respect, we didn't write the book on being cocky, but frankly, if we did, it would be warranted because we have won 8 grand finals in 14 years and you have won none.



Was Danny McGuire pulling cat walk struts after scoring 4 tries in 16 minutes against saints? Or 5 tries in a game? Or 39 tries in a season? Were Leeds fans gloating over bulls fans at old Trafford? None of these things happened. Most Leeds fans were sh*thing themselves before the 04 gf.



Cockyness is a right your team earns you as a fan, not when they win games...when they win actual trophies.



Oh I forgot you won the LLS, I guess that's a trophy. If you want to lord that, fill yet boots.

and remember 07 and 08 and 011 and 012 we were 2nd favourites we went in with nothing to lose attitude no cockiness

Well back then it was saints who were cocky, but they at least had cause because they were winning trophies. In fact, a common theme has been us as kind of downtrodden underdogs to a more worthy champion in the build up to the grand finals. In the lead up to last year it was arguably the same with how cas dominated.

oh yes we used to get a few on here before those GF's and 017 felt a lot like 08 .but as you say Saints of that time were not Cas of last year

I'm sure you can show plenty of evidence then. I'm fed up with this claim of cockiness of Cas fans pre-GF & excuses post-GF. Apart from wind-ups from AP I don't remember any. Cas had already shown weaknesses in their form in the play-offs & I had money on Leeds to win. There were no excuses after the stuffing. We were just crap, you were red hot. If we had played as we had earlier in the year it would have been a different story but we still wouldn't have necessarily have won.

There has always been an arrogant, smugness on this board, which I accept you have earned, but there were posters who did it with humour & intelligence, which is what attracted me to it in the first place. Most or all of them no longer post.

look you are a regular accepted member on this board and I bet you don't even diss Leeds people who don't even follow the game, JOKE .

I remember seeing plenty of Cas fans on RLFans, the Cas forum and other social media saying they were happy Leeds won the playoff SF because they knew they could beat us but wasn't as confident if Hull had made the final instead.

Newman starting in the centres for Fev today. Ormondroyd on the bench.



Lilley not even in the Leigh 19 this week. Injured or just not selected?

When I think of a big club in sports, I think of clubs like New England Patriots, Real Madrid, Manchester Utd, L.A Lakers..... let’s be honest mate, nobody south of Derby or north of York has a clue who Leeds Rhinos are.

Surely that logic was perfectly understandable . We'd lost 3 times to hull and beat you numerous times (fairly comfortably). Me personally I was very split and very nervous watching your semi as I know certain runs always come to an end. A lot of fans thought our best chance was playing you in the final, that isn't corky it just is what it is. We could have played widnes in the grand final and the slop we served up thst day would have seen us beaten by them too.

being honest I wouldn't say nobody